As usual Dinesh D'Souza is wrong. He sees the examples of the ancient Greeks and Romans practicing bisexuality as definitive proof that homosexuality is not innate. His theory is that since current Greeks and Romans don't practice rampant bisexuality (let's assume that's true for the moment being) and the ancient Greeks and Romans did, it must be a cultural thing. Not a genetic one.
What's funny about the Christian right argument is that they admit that they are powerless to stop feelings of homosexuality taking over if society opens up to it. What's going through their minds? Perhaps they're not so different from the ancient Greeks after all.
Of course, as Kinsey showed, the difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality is not a sharp divide (I used to take credit for this idea until I realized Professor Kinsey had written about this before I was even born). It's not a black or white, gay or straight issue. Everyone is somewhere along the gay-straight spectrum.
And the further society opens up to homosexuality as permissible, the more people feel comfortable coming out as bisexual, homosexual, omnisexual or whateversexual.
Let me give a quick and absurdly simplistic example. Let's assume 100 is completely gay and 0 is completely straight on our gay-straight continuum. A person who ranks a 95 on the gay scale is probably going to act out on those innate desires no matter what societal rules there are, even at the risk of being put to death in closed societies.
A person who is a 5 on that scale might never act on any trace bisexual desires he or she might have no matter what the societal norms are. But the more open a society is, the more you will start to draw in people who score an 85, 75, 65, 55, 45, 35, etc. on our fun little gay-straight line.
In a very closed society some one who is "80% gay" might never come out and in a very open society someone who is even "20% gay" might try it. These are gross simplifications, but you get the point. In fact, this is in some ways exactly what the culture warriors on the right have been warning about.
The Christian right (and the religious and cultural conservatives of a great many societies) have been worried about this for a long time. They are right. As society opens up, we will likely be more "gay." Or in reality, be closer to our true nature, wherever that might lie on the bisexuality continuum.
Where the cultural right is wrong is when they make a value judgment on that. Of course, there isn't anything wrong with that all. In fact, since it allows us to be closer to our "real" nature without societal judgments on our natural sexual preferences, there is something very right about it.
As it stands, our current culture doesn't yet appear to be fully comfortable with a truly and widely bisexual society. So, we inch toward progress or slouch toward
Though it must be noted that we have already achieved a great deal of openness on the female side of the equation. Ask around and see if you can find a woman under 25 who hasn't made out with one of their girlfriends.
My informal study on our show indicates about 80% of girls under 25 have at least tried a sexual experience with another woman (I concede that I am no Alfred Kinsey and my so-called evidence is wildly anecdotal, but ask for yourself and you'll see my numbers are shockingly accurate).
D'Souza uses history as his guide. It's ironic because his argument is ultimately against the tide of history and the inevitability of our genes. We know what the future holds, it is our past. The American people are right, our sexuality is innate. We just have to have the courage to own up to it.
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Reader Comments ( Page 4 of 37)
46. I think that one of our biggest problems in society today is that christians are spending all of our time talking about homosexuallity than anything else. Now everytime you say the word "christian" people hear the word "hateful". Why not just let people make there own choices and have enough respect to not be so confrontational about something that is none of your buiseness in the first place. take the plank out of your own eye before you take the speck out of another. put your faith to good. feed the homeless, help the elderly,
call for peace on earth, and show people what God's love looks like. Amen
melodie at 8:00PM on Jun 28th 2007
47. I am a bisexual man and had a near death experience many years ago. When I was standing before God, it wasnt about what religion you are or if you were Bi, gay or str8. It was about love and how we treat each other and the relationships we form with one another as well as our own decisions on this earth and nothing else mattered. So, all I can say is don't let society's impression of what your life should be, think, and act like, poison you. Be open minded and just live, & love each other. And in the end it is that that you will be judged on I firmly believe.
Brian at 8:04PM on Jun 28th 2007
48. I don't think anyone is equating homosexuality with pedophilia. I think the point is that once you say that it isn't wrong, it's just a "preference", you leave the door wide open. Pedophiles will claim they can't help themselves, it's natural, it's a preference. They actually already do believe that, among themselves. Eventually they will claim they are victims of close-minded bigots who can't see that there's nothing wrong with their mindset.
You actually can't have it both ways. You can either believe that certain sexual inclinations are wrong, or you can believe that they are all right. You cannot get angry about people who "judge" homosexuals and then pass judgement yourselves on bestiality, or pedophilia, or incest, or necrophilia, or whatever else.
As for the Greeks and the Romans, they did not necessarily practice homosexuality out of their natural preferences but out of custom and duty. Spartan soldiers, for example, "adopted" younger recruits (some very, very young, as in prepubescent) and had sex with them to form strong psychological bonds and to promote loyalty. Then later in life, they were expected to marry women. The thought of having sex with a woman was so foreign to them by this time that the women had to shave their heads and wear boy's clothing to make the switch more palatable. Sexual orientation can be conditioned, and the first sexual encounter that a person has can shape his (or her) sexuality forever, especially if they are "questioning".
This doesn't mean Christians should hate gay people, or refuse to associate with them. You can love someone that you belive is engaged in a sinful lifestyle. You can be kind and compassionate and see all the good, without condoning what they do. No-one is above temptation, and homosexuality is not any worse a sin than all the others, most of which Christians have been guilty of at one time or another. But Christians do have the right to believe that homosexuality is wrong, just as everybody else has the right to their beliefs. And, as we know, this is a country where we are not supposed to be persecuted for our beliefs, and last I checked, freedom of speech applies to Christians as well as rap artists who openly denigrate women and people who support pornography and call any objection censorship.
jessmarroyo at 8:05PM on Jun 28th 2007
49. It is pathetic to read the "bible thumpers" using that book for rationalizing what are really their own prejudices. They just cannot get several things through their brainwashed minds. The first is that not everyone believes that "the Bible" is necessarily the "word of God." They have been "told" that it is, so they believe it. I find such servile minds exceedingly reprehensible, and unworthy of any thinking human being. They don't even look at their own book to find out that they are forbidden to engage in condemnation. I know it is hard for them to get through the shell in which their "minds" are encapsulated, but unless either they or their leaders are "gods", they have no more right to condemn anyone.
Wish that they could only come to the realization that their supposed "leaders" care not a whit about religion. All they are doing is "using" religion to control others and gain dominion over others. That so many of their "followers" so blindly follow reminds me of the servility of the German mind that allowed Hitler to come to power in Germany.
Dare to think for yourself people, or someone else will do your thinking for you. You have been given one. Try using it. Thinking may be harder but "blind belief" reflects nothing but people who want to be told what to do, what to believe, and even what to think. That is not a human being, it is a robot. That is true even if it comes in human form.
RLaitres at 8:06PM on Jun 28th 2007
50. We are not ALL gay to some degree - I am 100% heterosexual. Most people I know are 100% one sexual preference or the other, very few mixed.
San Antonio Cheryl at 8:12PM on Jun 28th 2007
51. Just be yourself.
Do what you want.
Be happy.
ED at 8:19PM on Jun 28th 2007
52. The interesting thing not mentioned? Since gays are so liberal and trying to legitimize the behavior they desire to say it is genetic. The haven't taken into account how many parents would abort their unborns if they find genetic flaws like homosexuality. Hence they have stopped arguing that strategy The liberal gays will abort themselves out of existence. Another way to look at intelligent design. How marvelous.
Wayne at 8:29PM on Jun 28th 2007
53. Shelbyj, you are awesome.
Phoenix at 8:37PM on Jun 28th 2007
54. You guys are soooo gay. If only Germany would have left Russia to their own devices, perhaps we could have a real genetic experiment to see if gay genes are in us all. Just kill all gays and see if they pop there fat little heads up anywhere.
mat at 8:44PM on Jun 28th 2007
55. The sexuality of humans will be found to be caused by a spectrum of genes just like intelligence and therefor we are not likely to find a "gay" gene, but rather those closely associated with homosexuality. Whatever spectrum of sexuality that results is only ethical if it takes place between consenting partners. That rules out kids and animals...but we can all have a 21st century discussion about whether that means 16 year olds, or 15 year olds...have at it.
The twin studies have been mentioned, and there is also a birth order affect. Later born sons are more likely to be gay. It is clearly genetic and possibly developemental, much like the Rh factor coming into play in later pregnancies.
The fellow who said that it cannot be genetic because natural selection would get rid of it, does not understand how natural selection works on combinations of genes. It is the whole combination that is selected if certain arrangements make the species as a whole more reproductively stable. Example: What if the genes that cause homosexuality are the same genes that make women more fertile or sexually receptive? Wild guess, but you get the point as to why there has been a historical percentage of all populations and cultures who are predominantly gay. Whatever combination of genes causes it, it was decided eons ago by evolution that it is beneficial as a whole.
As for religious myths, we will know what every one of our genes does before I will understand how people can believe that crock.
Ron at 8:45PM on Jun 28th 2007
56. Does anyone know when the word homosexuality came into existance? Not until the 1900's. Wonder when it began to print in the Bible
jan at 9:02PM on Jun 28th 2007
57. Ron 57. I don't want to blow smoke up your ass as that would be gay, however you state your point well. After years of study of the 'myths' I could not belive. I was six. Unfortunately I was had to attend the brainwashing sessions until I was 18. I really feel bad for those that have something in their head that they cannot cope with but for the hope that God will bless them by not giving in to impure thoughts. Now if I can only get my chick to do some lez stuff on camera...
mat at 9:03PM on Jun 28th 2007
58. Yeah they replaced sodomite with homosexual... crazy. Sodomy can be interpreted as sex with the same sex, anal sex with a woman, or beastiality. Perhaps homosexual is just a synonym.
mat at 9:05PM on Jun 28th 2007
59. CJ is a moron for only someone with low intellegence could come up with such ridiculous statements. And what makes you think gay people don't have Jesus? You are the one who needs Jesus but apparently you're not even smart enough to realize it! America may well be coming to it's end but it is not because I sleep with men - it's because Christians and Republicans are dangerous idiots.
keller at 9:05PM on Jun 28th 2007
60. Jan of #58,
The word homosexuality is not in the Bible. Only references to the act. Those have always been there.
Michelle at 9:09PM on Jun 28th 2007