As usual Dinesh D'Souza is wrong. He sees the examples of the ancient Greeks and Romans practicing bisexuality as definitive proof that homosexuality is not innate. His theory is that since current Greeks and Romans don't practice rampant bisexuality (let's assume that's true for the moment being) and the ancient Greeks and Romans did, it must be a cultural thing. Not a genetic one.
What's funny about the Christian right argument is that they admit that they are powerless to stop feelings of homosexuality taking over if society opens up to it. What's going through their minds? Perhaps they're not so different from the ancient Greeks after all.
Of course, as Kinsey showed, the difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality is not a sharp divide (I used to take credit for this idea until I realized Professor Kinsey had written about this before I was even born). It's not a black or white, gay or straight issue. Everyone is somewhere along the gay-straight spectrum.
And the further society opens up to homosexuality as permissible, the more people feel comfortable coming out as bisexual, homosexual, omnisexual or whateversexual.
Let me give a quick and absurdly simplistic example. Let's assume 100 is completely gay and 0 is completely straight on our gay-straight continuum. A person who ranks a 95 on the gay scale is probably going to act out on those innate desires no matter what societal rules there are, even at the risk of being put to death in closed societies.
A person who is a 5 on that scale might never act on any trace bisexual desires he or she might have no matter what the societal norms are. But the more open a society is, the more you will start to draw in people who score an 85, 75, 65, 55, 45, 35, etc. on our fun little gay-straight line.
In a very closed society some one who is "80% gay" might never come out and in a very open society someone who is even "20% gay" might try it. These are gross simplifications, but you get the point. In fact, this is in some ways exactly what the culture warriors on the right have been warning about.
The Christian right (and the religious and cultural conservatives of a great many societies) have been worried about this for a long time. They are right. As society opens up, we will likely be more "gay." Or in reality, be closer to our true nature, wherever that might lie on the bisexuality continuum.
Where the cultural right is wrong is when they make a value judgment on that. Of course, there isn't anything wrong with that all. In fact, since it allows us to be closer to our "real" nature without societal judgments on our natural sexual preferences, there is something very right about it.
As it stands, our current culture doesn't yet appear to be fully comfortable with a truly and widely bisexual society. So, we inch toward progress or slouch toward
Though it must be noted that we have already achieved a great deal of openness on the female side of the equation. Ask around and see if you can find a woman under 25 who hasn't made out with one of their girlfriends.
My informal study on our show indicates about 80% of girls under 25 have at least tried a sexual experience with another woman (I concede that I am no Alfred Kinsey and my so-called evidence is wildly anecdotal, but ask for yourself and you'll see my numbers are shockingly accurate).
D'Souza uses history as his guide. It's ironic because his argument is ultimately against the tide of history and the inevitability of our genes. We know what the future holds, it is our past. The American people are right, our sexuality is innate. We just have to have the courage to own up to it.
Watch The Young Turks
Reader Comments ( Page 37 of 37)
541. Since all that bible crap is bullshit, and these religious whackos so closed-minded and full of self-loathing and shame, I am left to assume one thing-
Jesus was probably crucified by his own people because he was caught with some guys bone up his ass.
supergirlie at 10:35PM on Jul 8th 2007
542. Dear Carolyn -
The greatest of love and peace to you, too! Please know that I totally believe that you are sincere in what you are asking me and have no problem responding. My "style," however, is to answer/respond directly to each question/statement, so I will indicate that here (I did not do that on my last response, which may make it confusing to read - all you need do is refer back to your previous post, because I incorporated it and responded to each issue).
Now, then -
CAROLYN - You speak a lot of scripture when you write.
SHELBY - Actually, I don't agree. I do agree that I use several scriptures and verses, but I don't think ten or so (given how many are actually in the Bible) is "a lot." I could be wrong, however. I use them to show you/others what the Bible REALLY says, as all too often people "quote" the Bible and say its "says" this and that... when it actually doesn't... or vice versa.
CAROLYN - May I ask your personal belief, what you would speak, on our Savior?
SHELBY - Absolutely!! And my love for him AND you obligates me to tell you!
CAROLYN - Do you speak Jesus the Christ as the son of God...
SHELBY - Well, sort of. I "speak" JAHESHUA (meaning "JAH Saves" or "Salvation of JAH")... MISCHAJAH (meaning "chosen/anointed of JAH")... as the Son of God. (Note, the name of the True God is JAH(veh)... which is why we say "Hallelujah"... or Praise (hallel) You (u) JAH (jah).) Indeed, many of the Prophets were named for/after Him (i.e., Elijah, Abijah, Nehemiah, Jeremiah, Joel/Jah-El, etc.)
I cannot call my Lord "Jesus," however, because that name is a mistransliteration. The name "Jesus" comes from the Greek "Ieosus", which means "Je is Zeus" (the Greek "I" is our "J" - remember Indiana Jones?). The word/name "Zeus" in Greek means "God" ("Deos") AS WELL AS is the name for the highest Greek god, Zeus (Roman, Jupiter).
The true ENGLISH rendering, however, is NOT "Jesus"... but "Joshua" (JAH eSHUA). I USED to call him "Jesus," as you do. And then he told me his name (JAHESHUA in Hebrew and JOSHUA in English), so I call him by his name, not what others have mistransliterated that name to be.
Now, you and some others might think this is just a matter of symantics/trivia, but I would have to disagree. Your name is "Carolyn," not, say, "Katherine." How respectful of me would it be if I continued to call you by a name not your own, particularly after you've personally told me what your name was and how to pronounce it? At some point you might tire of it. Maybe not. But if my salvation DEPENDS upon calling on your name, seems to ME that I would want to get it right.
In that light, you might say, "Well, it doesn't really matter, does it? I mean, HE knows who/what we mean, doesn't he?" And my response would be maybe, more likely yes, but that that's not the point. The POINT, I would say, is that can I TRULY say I LOVE someone... and not even bother to know, let alone call him by, his TRUE name? For me, it goes to the very heart of my relationship with him: I know my children's name, my parents, my husband, and how to correctly pronounced them, etc. Shouldn't I KNOW the same of my Lord? I personally think I should.
CAROLYN - Born of a virgin...
SHELBY - Absolutely. The ONLY one NOT "born in sin," in that NO seed was spilled. Not one drop. Not one sperm.
CAROLYN - Conceived of the Holy Spirit
Ummmm... not quite, I think. Not in the way that you seem to indicate here (i.e., that it was the Holy Spirit that conceived my Lord). The TRUTH is that GOD conceived my Lord, His Son, by MEANS of holy spirit... His life force, His seed. This conception resulted in "the Son of His love"... with a "woman," the spirit realm... Sarah... the "free woman." That is how he came to be BEFORE all creation, "before Abraham," etc.
That life was then transplanted "in vitro" into Mary, a woman of flesh, who became a kind of surrogate (though not completely - my Lord's SPIRIT life was conceived in the spirit realm; however, his FLESH was conceived in Mary's womb), so that his flesh was "of Mary" and thus, "sinful" (i.e., it had sin IN it, as well as was able to take on more sin - ours - which is how he healed people - he took THEIR sin/sickness into HIS flesh - which is why it could become sick ("No doubt, you will say to me, "Physician, heal THYSELF") - and why it could die: perfect flesh does not have sin IN it, and therefore cannot die... which is why Adam and Eve initially had LIFE). But such flesh was merely the "vessel" which contained HIM, the TRUE him... a spirit-being. Thus, it was "of no use." I digress.
CAROLYN - Walked the earth in the flesh...
SHELBY - Yes, absolutely, and see above for what kind of flesh. My Lord was a half-breed: half flesh (from Mary) and half spirit (from God). By means of his FLESH from Mary, he could be sick, and even die. By means of his SPIRIT... from God... he could live.
We... are the same EXCEPT... we don't have enough LIFE in our SPIRITS to overcome the DEATH in our FLESH.
CAROLYN - Crucified...
SHELBY - Yes, totally.
CAROLYN - Dead and buried...
SHELBY - Yes, without doubt.
CAROLYN - Resurrected by God...
SHELBY - YES!! Emphatically, yes!! By means of the LIFE that was IN him... GOD'S LIFE FORCE... HOLY SPIRIT!
CAROLYN - And that receiving Jesus into our heart as our personal savior, having repented of our sins, is the only way to Heaven?
SHELBY - Not quite.
First, repentance was preached to the Jews: they were in a Covenant that they had profaned and they needed to ACKNOWLEDGE AND FEEL REGRET for that, which is what repentance is. People of the NATIONS, however, were not "under the Law," and therefore, not bound to uphold it.
Second, you can't just "receive Jesus into [your] heart." You cannot COME to my Lord... unless the Father draws you. The Father will not DRAW you... until you PREPARE YOUR HEART. You prepare your heart... by CLEANSING it ("clean the INSIDE of the cup"...). You CLEANSE it... by removing HATRED, HYPOCRISY, JUDGING, CONDEMNING... and the like. These are "leaven" that "permeate the ENTIRE lump," so that if you are unclean in your HEART... you are unclean in your SPIRIT... you are unclean in your SOUL... you are unclean in your flesh.
Christ said, "IF you obey my commandments, the FATHER AND I will come... and MAKE OUR ABODE with you." What commandments was he speaking of? Well, many believe he meant the 10 Commandments, as stated in, and including, the Old Testament/Covenant. But that is NOT what he meant. What DID he mean?
1. You MUST love your enemies
2. I give you a NEW commandment, that you MUST love one another
3. You MUST love your neighbor
4. If I washed YOUR feet, you OUGHT to wash the feet of one another
5. Do NOT take the high seat but take the LOWEST seat, for he that is GREATEST... MUST be LEAST among you
6. KEEP doing this in remembrance of me
7. TAKE, EAT
8. TAKE, DRINK
Finally, he said... and I quote:
"UNLESS... YOU... EAT THE FLESH of the Son of Man... AND DRINK HIS BLOOD... YOU... have NO life in yourselves. He that eats MY flesh and drinks MY blood, WILL HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE... AND... I WILL raise him on the last day."
And these are just a few things. We are to "look after widows and orphans." We are to "have pity and compassion." We are to "STOP JUDGING" so that we will by no means BE judged.
You see, Carolyn, the bottom line is that you can BELIEVE all you want to. However, faith... WITHOUT WORKS... is "dead."
My Lord "left us a pattern to follow in HIS footsteps." Not Paul's, not Peter's, not the Pope's, not Reverend, Bishop, Elder or Brother So-and-So's. His, and his alone.
So, I ask you: who did HE judge? Indeed, who is he TO judge? According to him... NO ONE. He repeatedly said that he did NOT come to judge the world... but to SAVE the world.
So, how is our judging done? Two ways:
1. First, we judge... and condemn... ourselves. By how WE judge... and condemn... others. Thus, with the same judgment that WE give out... we WILL be judged.
2. After the 2nd resurrection, by God (NOT Christ!), when the "scrolls are opened." From the founding of the world ("throwing down of the seed"), two records have been kept - one extensive, one limited. The first (and extensive) contains all of our deeds, good AND bad... and we are judged according to them (excluding those "in union" with Christ, who "have no condemnation"). Because ALL have sinned, however, and fallen short... ALL are slated to be judged... and condemned because of the "bad" deeds. That's were the second Book comes in.
The second is the Lamb's Book... the Book of Life. In it are written the names of those who "belong to Christ," and/or did well by Christ's brothers, including the LEAST one, which would be a Jew (and probably a Pharisee involved in his death). Anyone who has their name written in THIS Book, has their sins BLOTTED OUT of the FIRST Book, and thus "have NO sin." As a result, they are SINLESS... and received life (vs. the judgment and condemnation given to those who do NOT have their names in the second book, and thus nothing to blot out their sins!).
You get your name written in the second book by following Christ's commandments (not the OLD ones). HOWEVER, Christ's NEW commandments do not invalidate the OLD ones.
HERE IS THE GIST: We are... all of us... sinners. Condemned to death by a "universal" law that says the wage (price, cost, payment) of sin... is death. HOWEVER... the GIFT God gives is LIFE... by means of Christ. You GET that gift, by doing CHRIST's will... and not your own. And HIS will is that "all things you want men to do to YOU... you MUST do to them." What "things"?
Forgive
Release
Show mercy
Help and assist
Have pity and compassion for
EVEN if such person is your enemy (which is why we have the account of the "Good" Samaritan).
And ALL of this is summed up... in LOVE. If you LOVE your brother, you WON'T murder him. If you LOVE your brother, you WON'T covet his wife. Etc., etc., etc. Yet, because of our SINFULNESS... we are gonna break SOME "law" at SOME time... and so my Lord gave HIS life... to atone for MINE... WHEN I break a "law"... so long as I EXERCISE FAITH in that blood.
And I "exercise" such faith... by doing HIS will... i.e., LOVING God, my brother, my neighbor AND my enemy... and NOT judging and condemning them.
I leave such things to HIM... because they BELONG to him, by authority of God. And even though he HAS such authority... he does not WIELD it! How can I NOT love him? He has saved me... from myself... and my sin.
CAROLUN - Please know that I am truly seek your answer and am not implying anything with the question. Thanks and peace to you.
SHELBY - Again, I totally know this and have answered you truthfully, in the same spirit. The greatest of love and peace to you!
ShelbyJ
ShelbyJ at 12:12PM on Jul 9th 2007
543. i'm amazed at how people relate to problems and situations. because homosexuality may be accepted (i didn't say condoned) every one will now turn gay, and we will never be able to further the species. look around people, homosexuality is a LIKE for another person, that is why there are black, whites, asians, etc why there are tall skinny women, and short fat women, ugly and attractive people at least throught the eyes of aothers, Mcdonalds and burger king, and everything in between, so WE CAN ALL ENJOY AND CHOOSE WHAT WE WANT, WHAT WE LIKE. and yes why there are jews, mormons, catholics and protestants, CHOICES, CHOISES people. you are really way out there if you think that because i like fat, catholic, blonde, women that eat at Wendy's that its going to rub off on you. Accept life, people, and others for what they are and quit finding faults.
J at LA at 8:30PM on Jul 9th 2007
544. TO ALL THE CHRISTIANS!!!
You can't be judgemental and forceful and expect anyone to adhere to your beliefs or even consider your POV. Jesus' message was one of love and compassion not hate. Hard core conservatives and "religious" people are the ones giving faithful people a bad rap. TRUE christians do not hate anyone!!You may say "it is my duty as a christian to inform people of there sins and try to turn them away from an indecent lifestyle" but guess what..THERE IS NOT A SINGLE PERSON IN THE WORLD THAT IS WITHOUT SIN!! Before you decide to "preach" to gays about their lifestyle make sure you're ready to inform anyone who has ever committed adultery, anyone has been disrespectful to their parents, anyone who has lied cheated or stolen, or even anyone who has had sex before marraige (yes the Bible says that fornication is also a sin)that they too are living in sin. One look around and you can see that that includes the vast majority of so called "christians" who see fit to pass judgement on others. (Don't get me wrong there are plenty of Christians who truly have grasped what it means to follow the way of God which means realizing that one has sinned but repenting of their sins) Homosexuals arent bad people. As an individual you have the right to believe that they are sinners (or not) but dont forget that you are one too! Remember, NOT EVERY ONE BELIEVES IN THE BIBLE/GOD!!! Cramming your beliefs down their throats is not going to get you anywhere. Someone said this before "True Christians hate the sin and not the sinner"
-Jess
Jess at 3:29PM on Jul 17th 2007
545. Skimming all of these comments, I see that all you homophobes are trying to say that "allowing" homosexuality is going to lead to "allowing" beastiality, incest, and polygamy. Pedophilia is one thing, completely separate from homosexuality!!! Beastiality and polygamy, though (and incest to a certain extent---it's a gray area to me)... to those, I also say "so what?"
Martin at 1:01AM on Jul 26th 2007
546. Who cares and why please tell me I should! With so much death and blood and etc etc going on Why should you or any waste your time reguarding where some one choose to stick their tool?
lavenderblue3 at 7:01PM on Aug 18th 2007
547. None of my hetero sexual friends would ever dream of having oral sex with another man. The thought of it is utterly disgusting. What normal person would risk aids having anal sex? Sounds like rationalization by a gay person who can't help himself.
tom at 3:01PM on Sep 29th 2007
548. I don't even try to analyze theories, because that is what they are theories. Homosexuality is not the problem, Hetrosexuality is not the problem. All religions condemn someone or something because "they" feel uncomfortable with any given sexuality other than what they know, they are the first to condemn it. I believe that The one true God is a loving God to everyone no matter what their race, creed, sexuality. God gave us free will and because of that there are pedophiles, alduteres,prostitution,beastiality etc.. You people are so lost and confused about how life is. I pity the person who can not have an open mind and be responsible for their own actions, Rather they are gay, straight,metrosexual,bisexual,transgendered,omnisexual,whatever.! I am gay, I have been since I can remember and I try to lead a peaceful life with loving friends and family. I am not a pedophile or into having sex with animals, or any of the negative life styles alot of Conservative Right wing CHRISTIANS I have known or see or hear about in your pathetic little articles. To me a true Christian,Islam, buddhism,paganism,wiccan,Baptist, Catholism,Judiaism,LDS,and whatever other religions or religious beliefs that we as humans are not PERFECT, perfection does not exisist in our world does not JUDGE others in the name of their God. I do know this the bible was translated from armeaic, probably by a close minded heterosexual and some group of white, conservative Men, who probably wanted everyone to be so afraid of "Gods" wrath added some of their own thoughts and belief systems,into the scriptures of the BIBLE. I also believe that "everyone" is guilty of some kind of sin, and so we pray to who ever we believe in to be forgiven. Now as I am human just like everyone else, I will say this What about Staight father's and grandfathers and cousins, and uncles who rape thier own kin? What about so called straight men who have anonoymous sexual acts with prostitutes, or imagine this a gay Man or Lesbian woman and are not careful while engaging in their act. Who are these so called Christian Straight Men who have a wife, and children at home but they are engaging in sexual acts with others secretly and then spreading their disease around. All I am trying to say is yes, their will always be a few bad apples in the basket giving the rest of us a bad name, but if you need to blame I suggest looking at yourself in the mirror before casting a cold, uncaring, unhumane judgement on The Gays, because it seems to me that yes some of the general population has homosexuality tendencies and whether they act on it or not is not a sin, but how and why they do it may be a sin, and I think blaming their deviant act on homosexuality is sick and wrong. Clearly they have a MAJOR mental issue. They are the ones who need to be locked up and given psychiatric care. It is not for me to judge or stone them to death, so why do all of you think that it is your right to do so. AS one of your scriptures out of your bible says "JUDGE NOT LEST YOU BE JUDGED. Daved.
David at 8:20PM on Sep 30th 2007
549. next ppl will be having sex with animals and saying they have the right to!
rachel at 5:43PM on Jan 6th 2008